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If Constantine truly worshipped Sol Invictus, even portraying the icon on his coinage, why does the Church insist that he converted?July 26th, 2010
First, you need to better understand Emperor Constantine, his family life, and get a better perspective of his entire life.
Al B.
There is much I like in this comment and discussion:
05-02-2012 - by B.Z. I disagree with your cultural analysis of holiness. The Apostles defined holiness as an abstract quality but not an unattainable quality nor as an unquantifiable quality. I think the living definition gets inculturated or intellctualized to the point of literally squeezing out the holiness of Christianity in the daily lives of believers because they have to ascribe to a "higher" or "more educated" authority on holiness. Peter said we are a "priesthood of believers" and the by folowing the law by abiding in the Spirit that we will be rendered neither useless or ineffective for the kingdom - 2 Peter. Furthermore, the use of the word 5046 Teleios - used in Mt 5:48/19:21 and even other forms such as 5056 Telos 1 Pet 4:7, all imply holiness is the chief end of a life in Christ. In short, holiness is entirely expected to be understood first by the revelation of Holy Spirt upon conversion and subsequently through a life of discpleship through scriptural mentoring. The idea that holiness is relative from a believer's standpoint is unscriptural but the idea that holiness has been tainted and redefined through govt control, i.e. Constantine and quarrelling bishops is a very academic and real cultural issue that is best flushed out in the academy of research. Academics can provide a cold hard look at such things-especially relativism-that give us a more basic look at the people involved. Namely, quarrelling bishops, presbyters, deacons and/or political entities which some-with good intentions, but not without selfish benefit-desire to "unify" and make "official" or eradicate possible issues of disunity for political sake. Such was the case with Constantine. Thus, holiness is quantifiable according to scripture-the source alone that is the church's guide to living Christianity. However, holiness defined by any outside influence save the word of God, is a political voice and not the voice of the Holy Spirit lest we fall victim to the very words in Deuteronomy and revelation. "Do not add or take away from these words" Thank you for your comments. I cannot begin to answer/reply to each point, but I would suggest that you have not presented a solid enough argument for me. Do you (as you said) believe that "The Apostles defined holiness as an abstract quality?" I also agree with you that "...the living definition gets inculturated or intellctualized to the point of literally squeezing out the holiness of Christianity in the daily lives of believers." Yes, this CAN happen, but it remains that "holiness" is somewhat abstract. Many of the truths we hold in our faith are held in tension, seemingly fighting against each other. - We are saints, but we are also sinners. - We are holy "in Christ," yet we must strive for holiness [as if it depends on our efforts] - yet Paul says that everything we have received has been received by faith. - We are told that we should be living above or without sin, yet if we claim we have no sin we lie and the truth is not in us. In my argument on Constantine I am not saying that I KNOW he was a Christian - but there is plenty of evidence that he was. I am arguing that our lives reflect Christ, but not perfectly. In fact, we are striving to work out our salvation with fear and tremblng. We forget what is behind and strive forward. We press on knowing that we have not attained...yet. Now we see through a glass or mirror dimly ("in enigma" in the Greek). But then you say that holiness IS quantifiable. Which is it? And can you please define it for me? Just be careful, lest you be "adding" to the scriptural testimony. Al B.
Again, I really like much of what B.Z. says:
I see your point about seeing through glass darkly. I think what I am trying to communicate is more simple than it appears. Here goes. Holiness is an abstrtact principle to the world and in academic an unquantifiable thing and treated subjectively. that being said, the dichotemy that we are - sinners saved by grace, past, present, and future - makes our lives at times look unholy even though God sees us as holy through atonement of Christ. And thus, holiness is by faith but faith is not even of ourselves. Faith is not a blind leap it is a choice based upon revelation and a choice that all who are drawn by God make by His choosing us first. So, although we at times are not true to our sanctification, we are once and for all times sanctified regardless. I agree with you that this quality itself is the very tension that you speak of. But, in the telios usage in scripture, holiness is an attribute to be attained by believers. And because it is an attrubute to be attained, it is also and attribute that is under constant scrutiny by Satan, i.e., "stretch out Your hand to smite him and he will curse you". In today's world, that smite is almost always an appeal to the intellect in tension with God, i.e., holiness is "relative" or ... "having a form of Godliness" and challenge to the first and greatest command to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your soul and with all your strength and to have no other gods before Him. The very God of relativism is man and his intellect. It seems that our "tension" today is unfortunately our desire to alwys build and recast a new tower of Babel even if that tower is abstract and or "relative" if you will. God Bless you my friend and thank you for responding. I hope we continue this conversation. I believe the Lord is in it. Please send me the MOST critical NT telios texts that seem to uphold your thesis. I agreed with most everything else you said, but the telios bit is where I begin to differ. And I will tell you now that I am going to be most interested in what you find in Paul. Paul is our most significant NT writer. He is writing to Gentile Christians which is: 1. What dominated Christianity from around 55 AD onwards 2. Paul's letters contain the bulk of "Christian" teaching for the Church...AND 3. I am a Gentile Christian The main telios texts are from Jesus which is somewhat problematic for your point. Jesus' teaching represents a first century Jew, living under the Law. His audience was mainly first century Jews living under the Law (or they were supposedly living under the Law). I feel that after 20 years of struggling with the NT texts I finally began to get a grasp when I allowed myself to see/accept tension rather than trying to force the texts to be in perfect harmony. That was 16 years ago. I now believe that God has purposed to have tension in His word to keep us from knowing/understanding 100% - it helps to keep us humble IF we accept that we do not/cannot KNOW for certain. Al B.
Numerous CH101 readers have written to me with questions and critical comments about what I have written regarding Emperor Constantine. There is a significant percentage of conservative Protestants who believe Christianity suffered greatly under Constantine. As a young man I was taught that the Catholic Church started with Constantine and was the beginning of Christianity losing it's way.
One reader expressed it very close to how I learned it as a young man: "Paul said that the 'mystery of iniquity' was already at work in the church even during his day (2 Thes. 2:7). How much more in the years following the death of Paul and the other Apostles would the 'mystery of iniquity' be working."
While there are some valid points to be made for Christianity losing it's zeal and spiritual power, Constantine gets a bad rap in MY opinion. If you are interested in learning more about Constantine to better decide if he was an evil man or a Christian, or not, and here are some links on CH101:Emperor Constantine comes to Power Emperor Constantine and Christian Faith Emperor Constantine at the Council of Nicea Emperor Constantine and Worship of the Sun (Sol Invictus) Emperor Constantine and Christians in the Military Emperor Constantine Against the Donatists
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