Is Peter Wagner correct in his reporting of violent deaths happening around the establishing of the Trinitarian Creeds - "It produced no fewer than 25,000 deaths."

In an article appearing in Charisma, Peter Wagner makes the statement above regarding the Church Councils and Creeds of the first 4-5 centuries. Wagner is quoted by Joel Hemphill, an anti-trinitarian singer, preacher of sorts in an article on his web site. Wagner is citing historian, Ramsay MacMullen in his book, Voting About God in Early Church Councils.

I want to say up front this is outside my immediate area of expertise. I have consulted Chris Craun, CH101 Contributor with a Ph.D. in Medieval History and a Professor at the University of Central Arkansas. Dr. Craun gave me some good insight, but basically agrees with my assessment:

My formal training and my general knowledge of early Christian history immediately caused me to doubt this number of deaths as being attributed to the doctrine of the trinity...or any other doctrine for that matter.

1. Joel Hemphill does not accurately reflect Peter Wagner when he states,
"Wagner, himself a Trinitarian, says regarding the violence that occurred in establishing the Trinitarian creeds, it 'produced no fewer than 25,000 deaths!' " http://www.thehemphills.com/images/Charisma-truth.pdf

What Wagner actually said was:
"MacMullen finds that the literal physical battles involved in establishing the church's doctrinal creeds produced no fewer than 25,000 deaths!" http://www.charismamag.com/spirit/bible-study/19995-but-that-s-not-in-the-word. Wagner actually says 25,000 deaths over "doctrinal creeds."

2. Wagner is citing information from a text written by Yale historian Ramsay MacMullen, "Voting About God in Early Church Councils"
So Hemphill is quoting Wagner who is quoting MacMullen. I seriously doubt that Hemphill has looked up or read ANYTHING in MacMullen's text. Unfortunately, I doubt Wagner understands the nuance of the history he is reporting. He is trusting MacMullen who is an expert in his field.

3. MacMullen does mention 25,000 deaths, but he gives numerous caveats which, of course, neither Wagner nor Hemphill bother to mention. I initially found MacMullen's text on Google books which did not allow me to read his entire text, but one event in his death total appears to be the "Nika riots" (or "Nike") of 532 AD under Emperor Justinian, p.14. He gives a general account of this event in Chapter Two, but leaves out some very important parts of the story IF he is including this event in his total of 25,000 deaths. More on this later.

Now, MacMullen IS saying that these deaths were "victims of credal differences....the issues that were fought over were strictly theological." p.56

IF he is using the deaths from events like the Nike riots I find his statement above to be misleading. The Nike riots may have had some theological backdrop and some religious leaders/bishops may have taken sides, but the riots had more to do with ignorant, illiterate citizens unhappy with paying heavy taxes, the economy and the emperor's mismanagement of affairs. The Nike riots sound more like European soccer fans (hooligans): mostly thugs looking for an opportunity to shed a bit of blood, especially if the blood flows from the opposing side of the argument. Read a good piece on the Nike riots here: http://cliojournal.wikispaces.com/Justinian+and+the+nike+riots
Our primary source is Procopius

The ancient record states that 30,000 were killed in this riot, but most historians do not take that number seriously. The rioting started at the Hippodrome while opposing sides were watching chariot races and cheering on their side. It would not surprise me if, like now, some drinking and betting were going on...neither of these lead people to calm discussion!

[2016-04-19]
I had the chance to get the MacMullen text AND to read some reviews of the text. My opinion has been confirmed: MacMullen is vague about which events he includes to get to the 25,000 deaths. Here are a few comments from a review on the MacMullen book that echo my own thoughts:

This excerpt comes from a review by Lewis Ayres, Associate Professor of Historical Theology at Candler (at the time of the review) in First Things, pp.45-48 (emphasis added by RA Baker).

Ayres is right in my opinion. MacMullen gives a brief summary of the Nike riots in the first chapter, but then in his fifth chapter he lists his sources for the deaths in a footnote. Many of these sources are secondary/scholarly works, many of them from his own works. Included in this footnote,
"thousands of victims of General Narses in AD 536" p.137n1

The Nike riots were in 532, so either MacMullen has a typo or he is now referring to the Gothic War and the battle to take Rome when Narses led some troops. There a few problems here:
1. MacMullen is vague - is he referring to the Nike riots in this 25,000 death count, or is he including the Gothic War?
2. For MacMullen to use either of these events to come up with a death toll due to "credal differences" is misleading.
When a scholar uses an historical event like the Nike riots or even the Gothic War and writes, "the issues that were fought over were strictly theological," it causes me to doubt his other examples. I would have to read his entire text to give a solid response, but the Nike riots alone probably accounted for the majority of the cited 25,000 deaths. For MacMullen to build his argument on this number without making it clear WHICH events he is talking about IN THE MAIN TEXT is sensationalism. To claim such a large number of deaths and then to back it up with vague references (or simple page numbers in other studies) in a lengthy footnote is not good scholarship.

For me to give a full critique I would have to read his other works. The reader deserves a better presentation (and verification of data) IN THE MAIN TEXT when a scholar makes a claim of 25,000 deaths.

The more I read MacMullen, the more I think he is a good scholar who tends to give overly generalized comments without offering enough data/details. In the Preface to his text Christianizing the Roman Empire: (A.D. 100-400) (Yale Univ. Press, 1984) he writes, [Note how complicated and lengthy this first sentence becomes!]

I think this statement gives us a sense of MacMullen's style, mentioned in the above review by Ayres. MacMullen has tons of data in his brain and sometimes has difficulty presenting small pieces of data in a way which is easy to follow. And he is correct when he says that our historical data is not always clear. But when I read other scholars with tons of data in their brains (F.F. Bruce quickly comes to mind) I do not encounter such meandering pathways.

I seriously doubt Wagner or Hemphill are even aware of this fuzzy number. I doubt either of them has read much (if anything) about the Nike riots. This is the problem for pastors who attempt to make too many comments on Christian history. They do not know enough to be more careful and nuanced with their comments. Overall, I do not have a problem with Wagner's article on Charisma. But any thinking pastor should at least pause and think..."Could it really be true that over 25,000 people were killed over doctrinal differences in this period? IF true, why is it that I have NEVER heard ANYTHING specific about this?"

I blame MacMullen here. He is a scholar and he has overemphasized this point. The Nike riots (or using the Gothic War) and probably most of the other deaths MacMullen is referring to, happened during a period of Christian history when things were somewhat out of control - when the Church IS the State you are going to get problems. I am NOT justifying the use of troops and force to push religion, but like the Crusades, one must discern the nuances. This is not the only period of the "Church" being complicated. MacMullen should do a better job if/when he decides to throw out a number like 25,000 deaths.

Al Baker, Ph.D.

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